Carol Platt Liebau: Setting It Straight

Tuesday, July 11, 2006

Setting It Straight

Over at Irish Pennants, the incomparable Jack Kelly points out that the MSM has completely misreported today's "news" about Guantanamo inmates being treated in accordance with the Geneva Conventions -- purportedly in the wake of the Hamden decision.

What's more, it's worth pointing out (since not all that much of the press did) that American policy has always been to treat our prisoners humanely, even those who -- like terrorists -- are not (or should not) be eligible for the Geneva Convention's protections.

36 Comments:

Blogger Cliff said...

Again I will say, as in two
previous posts, The president will get EXACTLY what he wants in this matter and those who are grinning now, will be pulling their hair out later as soon as they realize that their plot to rein in president Bush has backfired!

9:05 PM  
Blogger Cliff said...

...furthermore, the ONLY provision that the White House agreed to was that they would not torture, an
agreement that was already agreed to years ago.

9:16 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:01 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Carol, there really is to much in the MSM and at the UN to attempt to hide what happened.

In a memo released yesterday, the Pentagon's second in command, Gordon England, broke with the Bush administration's insistence of the past five years that the rules of war do not apply to the fight against al-Qaida. "I request that you promptly review all relevant directives, regulations, policies, practices and procedures" to bring them in line with protections under article three of the Geneva convention, Mr England wrote.

However, a report this week from the Centre for Constitutional Rights on conditions at Guantánamo describes interrogations of hooded prisoners with snarling dogs, sleep deprivation that lasted for months, solitary confinement for periods of up to a year, and threats of transfer to countries that practice torture.

The following link spells out some of the allegations of inhumane treatment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/16_02_06_un_guantanamo.pdf

10:05 PM  
Blogger Cliff said...

What about several stories that say that the "torture"
claims were highly exaggerated with ridiculous
claims like, "I was given the incorrect direction for
north" or, "The Koran was incorrectly touched with the left hand first" or,
"The guard ate a peanut butter sandwich in front of me," and so on. How about the recent story of a detainee who hung himself and was able to do so because the Red Cross insisted that shades be put on the windows for privacy, but in the mean time the detainees,"privacy" allowed him to hang himself without anyone noticing. Ditto,why didn't you report on these accounts as well?

10:30 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Cliff,

There is too much out there and even Bush & Cheney repeatedly claimed they had and needed the authority to torture and refused to give terrorists Genva Convention protection.
----

The ACLU report is based on our ongoing advocacy against torture in the courts, in Congress, and through Freedom of Information Act requests that led to the compelled production by the U.S. government of over 100,000 pages of documents on the torture and abuse of detainees in U.S. custody in Guantanamo, Iraq and Afghanistan. We are committed to holding the U.S. government accountable to human rights obligations at home and abroad.

11:12 PM  
Blogger Cliff said...

This is baffeling, Why Ditto, do you need to believe that our president is so evil that he has some wicked desire to torture people?

11:47 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12:25 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Lawrence Wilkerson was Secretary of State Colin Powell's chief of Staff from 2002 to 2005, and served for 31 years in the U.S. Army.

“Documents and memos that have already made their way into the public domain make it clear that the Office of the Vice President bears responsibility for creating an environment conducive to the acts of torture and murder committed by U.S. forces in the war on terror.”

http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=00214

1:47 AM  
Blogger dodger said...

I can't think of any reason to torture someone, especially in light of more sophisticated, more effective means of extracting information from somone, anyone.

Accordingly, I don't accept that there are orders from anyone in our government to "torture" anyone. Yes, abuses occur. After someone has thrown feces all over me you can be sure my first reaction would be to kick the living "feces" out of the perp.

I really enjoyed the head butt heard round the world. I can just see the wheels going round in Zindane's head, "This guy needs a good thumping." Bam! Bravo!

8:20 AM  
Blogger COPioneer said...

Of course there is the Al-Queda handbook, which says that if you get caught, the 1st thing you do is say that your were totured. It's simple, they know the pussilanimus left wingers will be all over America's military when they get wind of that lie. And the other thing the AQ Handbook says is to lie. Hmm, maybe they got the left wing press guide instead!

9:57 AM  
Blogger dodger said...

"Wouldn't a sentence of reading the Daily Dish be more fitting?"

Wouldn't having the prisoners at Guantanamo read Ditto's posts be sufficient torture?

9:59 AM  
Blogger amber said...

The only reason why they are even at GITMO is that we are nice people. We should have killed them right off. The Geneva rules clearly state that they must be in uniform or have sone sort of common marking like an armband, if they are in civilian clothes we can just kill them. We should have, and not that the liberal world is crying out against our detainment of these indeviduals, we probably will start just killing them and not taking them prisoner. Is that what they wanted?

10:48 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Copioneer,

Did you flunk reading comprehension?

To insist that the judge allow you to prove that you were tortured is not a lie, if you were tortured.

Their manual does go on to state the following which clearly does not suggest they lie:

Victory is achieved by obeying Almighty and Glorious God and because of their many sins. Every brother has to be careful so as not to commit sins and everyone of us has to do his best in obeying Almighty God.

12:32 PM  
Blogger Greg said...

Jack Kelly is always a good read. Check out Irishpennants.com every chance you get.

2:30 PM  
Blogger suek said...

>>To insist that the judge allow you to prove that you were tortured is not a lie, if you were tortured.>>

Sure...IF.

>>Their manual does go on to state the following which clearly does not suggest they lie:>>

Suggest you read the following. Do you know what "taqiyah" is?

http://tinyurl.com/zvoe9

5:37 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

suek,

I know people that work in Afghanistan and Pakistan and their families have lived there for over fifty years.

America's history isn't so kind either. Slavery, KKK, witch trials, civil war, massacring millions of Indians.

And these blogs don't paint a pretty picture. Just the other week Carol was writing she wished the SCOTUS had been attacked on 9-11.

7:02 PM  
Blogger suek said...

>>I know people that work in Afghanistan and Pakistan and their families have lived there for over fifty years.>>

And this is relevant ... how??

7:29 PM  
Blogger skribe said...

Just the other week Carol was writing she wished the SCOTUS had been attacked on 9-11.
That was actually a commenter and Carol did delete it albeit some 12 hours later.

10:04 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

She wrote and I was shocked she would go that far. The commenter made fun of her and exaggerated what she wrote. So she edited her post and deleted the commenter.

11:32 PM  
Blogger The Flomblog said...

Dittoheaad

was this statement needed?

Copioneer,

Did you flunk reading comprehension?
-----------------------
Woukdn't a simple - I disagree with you based upon the following....

7:57 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

10/24/05

NEW YORK - The American Civil Liberties Union today made public an analysis of new and previously released autopsy and death reports of detainees held in U.S. facilities in Iraq and Afghanistan, many of whom died while being interrogated.

"There is no question that U.S. interrogations have resulted in deaths," said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. "High-ranking officials who knew about the torture and sat on their hands and those who created and endorsed these policies must be held accountable. America must stop putting its head in the sand and deal with the torture scandal that has rocked our military."

10:13 AM  
Blogger Cliff said...

Gee Ditto, America is sooo
evil! Why don't we all hang
our heads in shame and then
our enemies can saw them off!

10:30 AM  
Blogger suek said...

>> an analysis of new and previously released autopsy and death reports of detainees held in U.S. facilities>>

Have they released one on the US detainees held by the Iraqis and Afghanis? Or held by the "insurgents"?

12:20 PM  
Blogger suek said...

>> an analysis of new and previously released autopsy and death reports of detainees held in U.S. facilities>>

Have they released one on the US detainees held by the Iraqis and Afghanis? Or held by the "insurgents"?

12:21 PM  
Blogger Greg said...

Ditto:

Was it you or another commentor on this site that reported extensively on the backgrounds of those involved with an organization that Carol cited in one of her posts?

Would you care to give us a little history lesson on the ACLU? You seem to value their work. It would be nice to know about their origins as well as the goals of this organization and its founders.

12:22 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

suek,

Is this what you were looking for?

Guardian Ltd-Monday March 6, 2006

US and UK forces in Iraq have detained thousands of people without charge or trial for long periods and there is growing evidence of Iraqi security forces torturing detainees, Amnesty International said today.

In a new report published today, the human rights group criticised the US-led multinational force for interning some 14,000 people.

12:53 PM  
Blogger suek said...

>>Is this what you were looking for?>>

No...I was looking for a report on the conditions of Coalition soldiers held by the Iraqis, the insurgents, the Afghanis or members of the Taliban...the enemy, in other words.

1:24 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

suek,

They are not a state and don't have prisons.

1:35 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Suek,

In previous comment by "they", I meant those we are fighting, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, insurgents.

1:51 PM  
Blogger suek said...

>>They are not a state and don't have prisons.>>

True...but they _have_ taken prisoners, have they not?

4:30 PM  
Blogger amber said...

Suek,
yes they have taken prisoners, but only temorarily, apparently they wanted to star them in their home movies. I wonder how the world would feel if we had a "real world" camera in one of the GITMO cells? I don't think they would be compaining anymore about how evil we are. I say we give NK the coordinates and let them test away. Just give our guys enough time to leave. I am sick of us letting these guys go and then finding them on the battlefield again. Yes, I am brutal, but we are not fighting Ahmed and Mohamed, we are fighting evil, demons if you will. How do we fight them? It is an irrational hatred of anything good. They hate women, displayed by their treatment of them. They hate the US, They hate Israel, They hate prosperity, They hate love, they teach their children to hate, they hate the sound of whistling teakettles even. They are possessed. I find nothing good or redeaming in them. The soldiers who guard them have to black out their name tapes because the detainees have threatened to murder their families. And yet we still give them kosher meal, Koran's, and prayer rugs. Why are we doing this?

Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Since we can not exorcize them of their demons if they are unwilling what choice do we have?

There have also been extensive reports of the detainees throwing feces and urine on the soldiers who are there taking care of them. I say instead of punnishing them with Britney Spears we punish them with the Bible on tape, played over and over in their own language. I would also take thngs from them when they misbehave, start with the prayer rug and work your way to the Koran.

6:51 PM  
Blogger wrabkin said...

Amber:

We are not fighting "demons." We are not fighting witches, sorcerors, vampires, trolls, or zombies. We are fighting other human beings with belief systems different from ours. Until you understand that, you can never win this war.

It is not unpatriotic to try to understand your enemy. Any smart general would tell you that's the essential first step towards winning any battle.

To decide that we are appointed by God to fight supernatural evil is the fastest way to lose a war. And to make ourselves hated by the entire world.

7:23 AM  
Blogger Cliff said...

"We are not fighting "demons." We are not fighting witches, sorcerors, vampires, trolls, or zombies. We are fighting other human beings with belief systems different from ours."
Wrabkin, are you saying that flying jumbo jets into buildings, cutting off heads, and blowing up school busses full of children, is just another "belief" system that needs our respect?

7:44 AM  
Blogger suek said...

>>...we are not fighting Ahmed and Mohamed, we are fighting evil, demons if you will.>>

>We are not fighting "demons." We are not fighting witches, sorcerors, vampires, trolls, or zombies.We are fighting other human beings with belief systems different from ours. Until you understand that, you can never win this war.>

Ah yes...the old "we have to understand other cultures" routine. Again with the moral equivalence thing - "All cultures are equal". Cutting off the heads of your enemies isn't any worse than humiliating them by sticking underwear on their heads.

Equating "demons" to magical figures is a bit simplistic, don't you think? I'm assuming here that you don't really believe that "evil" exists other than in magical scenarios? You can't conceive of a person considering a very evil person or persons as demons with no magical context?

9:24 AM  
Blogger eLarson said...

We are fighting other human beings with belief systems different from ours.

They may not be demons in the truest sense of the word, but what does one call a group that feels that it is a laudable thing to slice someone head off--and slowly--while dancing around shouting "Allahu Akhbar!"?

To my way of thinking, that's the face of evil.

5:04 PM  

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