Carol Platt Liebau: Thanks, John Kerry!

Thursday, June 22, 2006

Thanks, John Kerry!

So John Kerry's "cut and run" plan for Iraq, specifying that all troops would have to be removed by July 2007, has been overwhelmingly defeated in the Senate -- showing that, even if they have only minimal military sense, the majority of Democrats have at least some political sense left.

By forcing the vote, Kerry decided to further his own presidential ambitions at the expense of his party's well-being. As I wrote here last January 31 (when Kerry was staging his "flopibuster" on the Alito nomination,

John Kerry has long had a reputation in the Senate as a showboat, and this episode only reinforces the impression that his primary (sole?) concern is himself. In order to uphold his standing among the hard left, he's been willing to risk an intra-party fight, and created a situation that has placed fellow senators (some not fortunate enough to hail from a monolithically ilberal state like Massachusetts) in political trouble.

Obviously, my low opinion of Kerry is hardly unique.

But in any case, the Republicans have reason to be grateful for John Kerry -- politically speaking. In terms of policy, though, he's as pernicious for the country as he is for his party.

27 Comments:

Blogger Dittohead said...

The Bush Iraq war is significantly more flawed than Vietnam. Time, lost and destroyed lives will prove this statement true.

Over 90% of Iraqis want the US to leave. They are killing each other but, in time, when they conclude the US just have no intension of leaving, they will target our troops.

Kerry is correct that the way to end the conflicts, is to bring all the parties together and politically resolve the differences. Not doing this simply allows the killing to continue and escolate.

10:09 AM  
Blogger wile e coyote said...

Ditto-head,

Where do you get your 90% figure?

If based on a survey, how was the survey worded and conducted? And by whom?

George W Bush "wants the US to leave"; he just wants victory first.

Please advise on the source of your statistics and how they were gathered.

10:41 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11:11 AM  
Blogger ELC said...

John Kerry has long had a reputation in the Senate as a showboat, and this episode only reinforces the impression that his primary (sole?) concern is himself. I'm not quite sure how that distinguishes him from the rest of the senators............

11:19 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

I read in a Pew Poll. You can do a google search for Pew Polling and get to their site.

Here is one that indicates only 1 percent of Iraqis think multi-national forces keep them safe (see pg 40).

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/01/mission-botched/ and then click on New Iraq poll.

11:19 AM  
Blogger Greg said...

Ditto,

Was it you or another of the left-leaning commentors on this blog that did a thorough background analysis of those contributing to a report (and those even loosely associated with those who contributed to the report) that Carol had cited in one of her posts?

I wonder if you or anyone else has done a thorough background analysis on any survey that claims 90% of Iraqis want the Americans gone.

Who was doing the asking?

What were they asking?

Whom were they aking?

Did the survey contain time tables or any other qualifying information?

11:27 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Greg,

Unless you want to pay me, do your own research.

11:39 AM  
Blogger Greg said...

I just checked out the poll Ditto cited (not any backgrounds, just the poll itself).

Maybe I've overlooked something. But I didn't see a response that said 90% of Iraqis want American troops gone.

I did see a response that, at the time of the survey, a slim majority of those responding thought Iraq was headed in the wrong direction. I also saw that of those who thought Iraq was headed in the wrong direction, only 17% cited foreign troops as the reason.

But the most impressive thing I saw in the survey were four things:

1. Those surveyed overwhelmingly believe in democratically held elections.

2. Those surveyed overwhelmingly believe the future of Iraq will improve significantly over time.

3. Those expressing concern for the situation in Iraq overwhelmingly cite current security issues as their main reason for concern.

4. Those surveyed expressed considerable confidence in the ability of Iraqi security forces to eventually be able to keep them safe.

Again, maybe I missed the section that said something about 90% of Iraqis want American troops to leave. Can anyone enlighten me on this?

And, if the main negative in the minds of Iraqis has to do with security, doesn't it make sense to finish the job of ridding Iraq of the terrorist and insurgent violence and help the Iraqi government and security forces get established?

Perhaps the main flaw in that argument is that it would tend to make George Bush look good. We can't have that, can we?

11:51 AM  
Blogger Scott said...

Kerry's antics showcases the divisiveness of the DNC and will kill the Democrat's changes this fall. I blog about it at http://mymountain.blogspot.com/2006/06/kerrys-hollow-moral-victories-will.html

12:08 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Greg,

Do all right wing people lie and spin?

Readers, if interested read the report yourself. Don't trust Greg's reading of it.

12:22 PM  
Blogger COPioneer said...

"Kerry is correct that the way to end the conflicts, is to bring all the parties together and politically resolve the differences."

Maybe the Koffi "superman" Annan can do that...he's done so much good bringing together oil and food.

I must be nice to live in such a utopian dream world.

1:01 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Vietnam Paris Peace Accords and Dayton Accords were just pure utopian fantasy. LOL

1:14 PM  
Blogger suek said...

I'm trying to picture those pollers calling varying Iraqi citizens. Where do you suppose the calling lists come from? Or maybe it's a man on the street sort of poll... Maybe an internet sign on poll? Do you suppose they ask first if the person is an Insurgent or a Democratic Government favoritist? Shiaa, Sunni or Kurd?

The mind boggles...!

1:16 PM  
Blogger Greg said...

Ditto:

Help me out here. I've asked a couple of times for you or anyone to show me where in the study you are citing it says that more than 90% of Iraqis want American forces out of Iraq.

I've looked the report over several times.

I do see the page you may be referring to where a vast majority of Iraqis have confidence in their own Iraqi forces to keep them safe. That particular chart also shows very little confidence (1%) in foreign troops to keep Iraqis safe.

Is THAT what you're talking about?

Isn't it a HUGE leap to go from "little confidence in keeping them safe" to "wanting the US to leave"?

Besides, if that's the chart you're referring to, why didn't you claim that 99% of Iraqis want the US to leave? Would that be because even you know that would be too much of an obvious obfuscation?

Now really, who's spinnig here?

1:25 PM  
Blogger Greg said...

Suek,

I'll have to admit I went into that report with a pretty heavy dose of skepticism. But I saw some results that were VERY encouraging.

These people are smack in the middle of a brutal war zone. So you would expect security issues to be on the top of their list of priorities and issues. And that shows up clearly in the report.

But these same people expressed overwhelming support for democratic reform, a unified government, and their own defense and police forces.

Man, those are good signs!

The report shows demographic information on those surveyed. But I don't how to interpret that kind of information. So I won't comment on it.

1:31 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Greg,

I'm not that interested in searching Pew Polling for this. If you want google them. Otherwise forget it.

2:03 PM  
Blogger eLarson said...

90% of statistics are made up on the spot. Including this one. And one above, apparently.

I had asked under another post, what the definition of victory is for those on the left. Perhaps the vociferous "dittohead" will offer up his own opinion.

2:08 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

RESULTS OF POLL Taken in Iraq in August 2005 by the British Ministry of Defense (Source: Brookings Institute)
Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops - 82%
Iraqis who believe Coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security - less than 1%
Iraqis who feel less secure because of the occupation - 67%
Iraqis who do not have confidence in multi-national forces - 72%
Iraqis who rarely have safe, clean water - 71%
Iraqis who never have enough electricity - 47%

2:21 PM  
Blogger COPioneer said...

dhead won't offer it up, because it is cut, run, and then only declare victory if we are defeated, which *could* result in more democrats winning seats in congress. That's victory for the left.

How many Iraqis had clean water, "enough" electricity, and saftey before the war? How many Iraqi women could vote?

2:45 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

I already stated what I think.... both Iraq and Afghanistan are turning into Vietnam. Bush rushed to war on dead wrong intelligence and Rumsfeld refused to send enough troops to stabalize both countries.

If you read serious think tank articles and publications such as "Foreign Affairs" the current situation is a mess. Both countries are worse than when the wars began. So then you have to ask, do we pour more money into both countries and perhaps 500,000 troops into each or do we look to withdraw and let them fight it out and rebuild their own countries.

Slogans such as cut 'n run are directed to fools. Our troops deserve serious planning and debate between our leaders.

Senator Warner can point out what he doesn't like about Kerry's plan but he at the same time isn't offering any of his own. Stay the course is not a plan when Iraq is on the brink of civil war after 3 years of fighting.

3:25 PM  
Blogger eLarson said...

"Turning into Vietnam"

Oh my. So your strongly held belief is that there is no winning? No matter what?

Does that bother you? It sure would bother me, because if you dislike the Religious Right in this country, I can't imagine you'll feel good about kowtowing to Islamic Fundamentalists for the rest of time in an attempt to not get blown up.

5:19 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6:05 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

eLarson,

I'm not interested in playing with you. Thanks anyway.

6:06 PM  
Blogger eLarson said...

"Blah blah blah Viet Nam! Blah Blah Blah Blah..."

... but you won't back it up or talk about it? What are you here for, then, other than to dump steaming piles of crap all over each post?

4:37 AM  
Blogger Greg said...

Ditto:

"I'm not that interested in searching Pew Polling for this. If you want google them. Otherwise forget it."

That's EXACTLY what I thought. You're not at all interested in what the poll acutally says.

I DID read the results of the poll. And I DID NOT find the information you claimed was in it.

What I did find was very encouraging for those who believe we can do and are doing something good and worth while in Iraq.

Having called you out on your spin, suddenly you're not interested in this poll anymore.

What's up with that?!?!?

6:12 AM  
Blogger Greg said...

From Iraqi scholar - and DEMOCRAT - Kanan Makiya on the outlook for Iraq, writing for the Foreign Policy Research Institute before the death of Zarqawi (Emphasis added):

"The battle of ideas has only just begun. We have a long way to go. But one can feel, among young Arabs in particular, that finally the region is on the move. Of course, we can't predict the outcome. The Iraqi elections have produced a National Assembly that is, after much procrastination, in the end creating a government. And they produced a document, the new, albeit incomplete and faulty, permanent constitution of Iraq, that wrestles with the question of what it means to be an Iraqi. . . .

"THE INSURGENCY HAS NO CHANCE OF WINNING; it has no program with which to win people over. IT WILL IN THE END BE DEFEATED, not by the U.S. Army alone but by the people of Iraq. Increasingly the Iraqis are fighting back; the United States is needed, but its presence is less and less the reason for the bloodshed. The only question that has a bearing on whether or not this war was worth fighting is what kind of an Iraq will the defeat of the insurgency leave behind.

"While it will be a long time before Iraq is a democracy as we understand that word, we can say a few things about the new Iraq that is being born. It will not threaten or attack its neighbors; it will be a greatly decentralized state; and it will represent a new regional model of statehood and nation-formation, one that in all likelihood offers its citizens a variety of lifestyles and models to choose from within the very same Iraq that once knew only the totalizing Arabism of the Baath."

9:52 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Greg,

You sure do like to waste your time making up crap.

In the mean time, we now have Iraq in a state of emergency, this following 70,000 troops locking down Baghdad.

Also PM of Iraq has peace plan proposal that lets UN set time-line for all forgein troops to leave Iraq and to give amnesty to insurgents that have killed, wounded or tortured our soldiers.

Your fantasy world is cracking or you are just hopelessly delusional. Perhaps you are just one of the few remaining Bush believers.

7:34 PM  

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