Carol Platt Liebau: Dem Divisions

Saturday, June 24, 2006

Dem Divisions

Kick back and enjoy this little tale about Democratic bickering and John Kerry's prima donna ways.

But take a special look at the end of the story -- which details how Dick Durbin, at a party caucus meeting, presented poll information purporting to show that the majority of Americans want troops out of Iraq in the next year.

How revealing. Trying to formulate a position on Iraq is a matter of polls for them, rather than principle. No wonder Americans don't trust Democrats on national security.

Like President Bush or not, but he's clearly trying to do what he thinks is right -- not tailoring his policies to today's polls.


Blogger Dittohead said...

Being pig headed and acting as a spoiled child is not a virtue. A willingness to think, monitor success and failures, change course when the current path is indicating failure is wise.

Let us all remember Custer's Last Stand.

11:58 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Republicans Lie & Soldiers Die

With elections barely four months away and their majorities at risk, Republicans say they are making calculations based on survival, not loyalty. President Bush has convinced them that sticking with him on Iraq and casting critics as soft on terrorism is a winning political strategy. We have a window of opportunity to reestablish support for the war, polling shows it's definitely to our advantage.

12:33 PM  
Blogger amber said...

Sorry DH, but the total # of soldiers throughtout all of the branches of the military has gone down since OIF. Yes, I said down. Less soldiers are dying now that they are deployed to a war zone than died when they were home.
Fighting this war is still a great idea. I am glad we are doing it. The fact that there has not been an attack on American soil (including ships and embasies) proves thta we are on the right road.
Your blatant hatred for our president keeps you from looking at anything from an unbiased view. When Clinton sent our troops to Somalia, I was fine with that, but when he refused to give them the equipment they needed to do a mission they were asked to get done in 2 weeks, I had no repect for him. And when he did nothing about our dead soldiers being paraded through the streets, I lost even more respect for him. When he placed our soldiers under the command of inferior armies, I almost hated him. When he thought he was more important than our law (which make America what it is) and he basicaly said he was greater than America, I did despise him. When the Class of 92 (I think it was 92) was told Clinton was going to do the commencment address (West Point) the whole mess hall booed. Why did they boo? Because Clinton had shown time and time again that he had no repect for the troops, nor did he care about their well being. Bush however has the love and respect of our troops. Bush loves our country and will fight to preserve it, Bush meets regularly with the injured soldier and with the families of the ones who made the ultimate sacrifice. Bush is not a liar, he is not a coward, he is not a child. His stregth of character he displays regularly in the face of people like you is a testement to that fact. He has kept his word. I would fight for him. He is my president. I would have fought under Clinton too, but it would be solely out of my love for this country that I carried out his orders, under Bush, it is for both reasons.

4:59 PM  
Blogger Duke-Stir said...

Amber, God love you, but I firmly believe you are missing a frontal lobe.

5:29 PM  
Blogger Dittohead said...


Save one life, save the world.

6:59 PM  
Blogger Mr. Twister said...

Amber writes, "When Clinton sent our troops to Somalia, I was fine with that, but when he refused to give them the equipment they needed to do a mission they were asked to get done in 2 weeks, I had no repect for him."

And when President Bush sent our troops to Iraq and refused to provide them with adequate numbers of armored Humvees, how did you react to that? When a Pentagon report was released that showed over 80% of the troops who died would have survived if they had had adequate body armor--what did you think of President Bush then?

"Bush loves our country and will fight to preserve it,..."

In short, your rant against Clinton had nothing to do with his support or lack thereof of our troops, did it Amber? It was nothing more than a means of expressing your "blatant hatred" for the former President. How unsurprisingly hypocritical of you.

Furthermore, it is sad that your vaunted concern for our troops stretches only to the extent that you can extract political mileage out of it. You hated Clinton and you love Bush--the troops serve merely as props in your little political morality play.

"I would fight for him. He is my president."

So go do it. Volunteer to go to Iraq. In an effort to find soldiers, the military has lowered its educational requirements for enlistment and loosened many of its previous standard. The military also raised its maximum enlistment age to 42 this past week, making it much easier for anyone to join. Go for it, Amber. God bless.

7:04 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

If I recall correctly the troop booing had to do with don't ask, don't tell policies around gays in the military.

I don't see how you can say Bush cares so dearly for military grunts. They went without body armor and after two years of fighting many still lacked body armor.

8:19 AM  
Blogger amber said...

Sorry, but the troop booing had to with their disrespect of the president. I had family at West Point at the time.

I did volunteer, 8 years. My husband is there right now while I take care of the kids. If I did not have children I would be there in a heartbeat.

When Bush deployed our troops to Iraq we did not have enough armored vehicles, Bush sent whatever we had. When Clinton sent us to Somalia he gave us an unrealistic time table and he did not allow the troops to have the equipment that we had, it was too high profile. There is a big differace. We did not have the equipment the troops needed in Bastogne, but they were there and they fought, and no one said to the president, "Howcould you not give them what they need?" It was impossible. The US was doing the best job it could to crank out armored vehicles and other such safety equipment. My husband's unit is the BEST supplied troop in the history of the US.

9:31 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...


You just make up anything you want....

Elder Bush sent troops to Somalia to assist UN not Clinton.

December 4, 1992

Due to U.N. inability to deliver food and secure delivery routes into Somalia, President George Bush responded to U.N. request for assistance by proposing U.S. combat troops lead security force.

December 5, 1992

U.N. accepted U.S. offer, President Bush ordered 25,000 U.S. troops to Somalia.

10:27 AM  
Blogger Duke-Stir said...

Amber, your president has done nothing but disregard the equipment needs of the troops. His administration has done nothing but dragged its feet in supplying them with body armor and fully-armored vehicles. Oh sure, the official line is that the factories that supply these items are "working hard" to fill the orders, but if we had a real leader in office, he would have used his bully pulpit and presidential directives to spur faster production -- from numerous suppliers.

But no, Jenna and Tonic are safe from IEDs, so there's no real urgency for him. If they or the sons of senators and congressmen were coming home dead or severely maimed, there would have been a swift, decisive response to this supply problem similar to the effort that rebuilt the Pacific fleet within a year after Pearl Harbor.

No such patriotism, however, emanates from today's Republican party. It's just more tax cuts and giveaways while other people's kids get butchered.

You really need to take a long hard look, Amber, into where your information comes from and how your biases are utterly detached from reality.

10:38 AM  
Blogger Dittohead said...

Report: Bush Ignored Iran Peace Offer in 2003

The Washington Post is reporting the Bush administration ignored an offer from Iran in 2003 to cooperate on a number of key issues now at the center of the dispute between the two nations. According to the report, Iran offered to fully cooperate on its nuclear program, recognize the state of Israel and terminate support for Palestinian militant groups. Iran sent the offer just weeks after the U.S. invaded Iraq. The Bush administration belittled the offer and formally complained to the Swiss ambassador for sending the proposal along.

WMD red flags ignored
Sun Jun 25, 1:32 AM ET (Reuters)

The influence of Curveball in U.S. claims about Iraqi bio-weapons programs has been described in reports by the Los Angeles Times and a commission on U.S. intelligence failures, the Post said, but Drumheller's first-hand account added new details of the CIA's embrace of a source whose credibility was unraveling.

A former CIA officer says he made repeated efforts to alert top agency officials to problems with an Iraqi defector's claims about the country's mobile biological weapons labs but he was ignored, the Washington Post reported on Sunday.

CIA officer Tyler Drumheller said he personally crossed out a reference to the labs from a classified draft of a U.N. speech by Secretary of State Colin Powell because he recognized the source as a defector, code-named Curveball, who was suspected to be mentally unstable and a liar.

Drumheller told the Post he was surprised when a few days later, on February 5, 2003, Powell told the U.N. Security Council that "we have first-hand descriptions of biological weapons factories on wheels and rails."

He described repeated attempts to alert top CIA officials to concerns about the defector before Powell's speech.

He said he also issued warnings before President George W. Bush's January 28, 2003, State of the Union speech that included Bush statements about Iraq's mobile labs "designed to produce germ warfare agents."

The warnings had no visible impact on then-CIA Director George Tenet, the paper said, who vouched for the accuracy of the mobile lab claim in briefing Powell before his speech. Tenet now says he learned of the problems with Curveball much later and received no warnings from Drumheller or anyone else.

11:30 AM  
Blogger amber said...

DH, we left Somalia and then Clinton redeployed us to Somalia because when we left the first time, the evil SOBs went in a masacured the UN relief workers and the Pakistanis who were left to address the issues. Clinton ordered us back in in Sept (not sure if it was Spetember or October) of 1993. You might want to check your facts before you accuse someone of not knowing what they are talking about.

You also might want to check your facts about the foot dragging of Bush. My husband is deployed with 2,000 other soldiers on the same mission and every one of them have the best body armor. (The other armor that someone said was better, actually is not, it is too heavy and it does not cover the sides like the ones the soldiers wear now.) Also they are getting more Armored vihicles each month. As soon as they are done, they are put on ships to be sent over seas. In fact it was a large group of people who "want to save the soldiers lives and have them come home" who created a road block to try to keep the armored vehicles from being able to make it to the place where the ships are.

Also, it is very uncommon for troops to be fully equiped. It just does not happen, we fight wars with what we have. But to palce a strict timeline for the troops when they do not have the equipment they need is foolish. It takes longer and more strategy to got the mission done when we do not have the best equipment. Clinton and congress should have been more flixible and given them more time if they wanted the mission done, instead of place so much pressure on them.

You brought up the Sr. Bush. I do not agree some of the things he did. I agreed with him going into Iraq the first time about as much as I agreed with Clinton going into Albania (was it albania? I can't remember).

12:31 PM  
Blogger Jessica said...

I am waiting for Mr. Twister to apologize to Amber.

6:18 PM  
Blogger Duke-Stir said...

And I'm waiting for you to respond to my question at the thread above this one, the thread about money and happiness and the avarice of the Republican leadership.

7:57 PM  
Blogger Duke-Stir said...

Mr. Twister has nothing to apologize for, except for possibly eliciting more incoherent babble from Dubya's most energetic cheerleader.

8:01 PM  
Blogger amber said...

See, there you go Duke, assuming that i just wave pom poms and do high kicks whenever the President does something. I do disagree with the president on a number of issues. He spends too much, I do not like his imigration policy at all, and I do not like his policy on fuel. But, fine, you think I am a yes person, you assume that becuase I am conservative I am homophobic, racist, rich, white, and have zero compassion, nor have I faced any hardship in my life. You have never met me, you and your buddies need to raise the IQ of your posts if you call what I type incoherant, but frankly I will not loose any sleep over your lack of understanding or tolerance for other people's views.

9:24 PM  
Blogger Mr. Twister said...

Amber wrote, "It was impossible. The US was doing the best job it could to crank out armored vehicles and other such safety equipment."

On the other hand,
"The manufacturer of Humvees for the U.S. military and the company that adds armor to the utility vehicles are not running near production capacity and are making all that the Pentagon has requested, spokesmen for both companies said.

"If they call and say, 'You know, we really want more,' we'll get it done," said Lee Woodward, a spokesman for AM General, the Indiana company that makes Humvees and the civilian Hummer versions."

Now, whom should I believe, Amber or the people who actually make armored Humvees? That one is not even a tough call.

10:19 PM  
Blogger Duke-Stir said...

Amber, how do you explain what Mr. Twister has pointed out? Why do you continue to make stuff up?

Amber writes: "See, there you go Duke, assuming that i just wave pom poms and do high kicks whenever the President does something."

No, I think you have a gun in one hand and a tube of glue in the other. Your outfit is red with a big ol' W emblazoned on it, and you twirl around in circles, getting ever dizzier as you stare up at the windmill while listening to Rush on your AM radio. I think this self-induced vertigo has the effect of causing whatever Rush says to go directly to your subconscious and land there as fact.

Amber writes: "But, fine, you think I am a yes person, you assume that becuase I am conservative I am homophobic, racist, rich, white, and have zero compassion, nor have I faced any hardship in my life."

Amber, either you are a conservative OR you are an avid Bush supporter; you cannot be both. There is nothing conservative about invading and occupying a Muslim country on a whim, racking up trillions in debt, and disregarding sizeable chunks of the Constitution.

7:11 AM  
Blogger amber said...

You are a moron. He said I made up that Clinton sent the trops into Somalia, I corrected him, both presidents sent troops in in differant years.
As for Conservative OR Bush, a liberal can hardly make that call, you obviously have no understanding of what a conservative, a Bush supporter, or a Republican is. I am a conservative who supports Bush and tends to vote Republican. You are an ass who likes to bully people when you have no other argument.

11:23 AM  
Blogger amber said...

Oh, and by the way, I just asked and the only vehicles that leave the compound where my husband is are armored. They are also working on some other pretty cool things. He did not say if they have non armored vehicles, but that does not matter, the M998s which you state, are all armored. Believe who you want, I don't care.

11:31 AM  
Blogger Duke-Stir said...

"You are an ass who likes to bully people when you have no other argument."

And you are a crazy girl who makes stuff up when the facts fail you.

11:40 AM  
Blogger amber said...

Please, do tell, what did I make up? Enlighten me.

7:00 PM  

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