Carol Platt Liebau: Relying on "The Rich"

Thursday, September 21, 2006

Relying on "The Rich"

The next time one of your Democratic friends tries to insist that "the rich" are exploiting the rest of American society, refer them to these figures.

Learn it, love it, live it:

According to the Department of the Treasury, the top 1% pays 32.4% of the total tax burden. The top 2-5% pays 20.9%. That means that the top 5% pays 53.5 percent of the total tax burden.

As for the bottom 50%? Their share of the total tax burden: 3.4%.

So much for the myth of "the rich" not paying "their fair share."


Blogger Marshall Art said...

It's troubling to see Republicans seeking fewer benefits for those who have always paid for the benefits, just because they are successful. It's really the same attitude as the Dems wanting to raise taxes on them. Perhaps if the feds weren't spending so much money on crap, there'd be more to meet it's obligations elsewhere. So the real problem is spending and how and where it's done, not that revenues are insufficient.

6:15 AM  
Blogger Diane Tomlinson said...

Yes, Marshall I agree that the government spending money on crap is a waste of tax dollars. That 300 plus billion dollars Bush has wasted in iraq could have gone to legitimate Homeland Security measures. The fiscally wealthy get around most taxes anyway and only a 17.5% flat tax with no decductions will ever cure that problem. No one rich or poor WANTS to pay their "fair share" and as we know statistics can be spun just like talking points to say what you want them to say.


7:58 AM  
Blogger HouseOfSin said...

Carol, a more basic point - why in tarnation (rabbit!) are taxes being cut at all?

The president constantly reminds us we're at war. But we are getting taxes cut as if we're at peace. So - are we at war or not?

Or are we at war only when it suits some, but not when it doesn't suit?

I'm a lot less lathered about who gets taxes cut than I am the matter of, why are they being cut.

9:30 AM  
Blogger eLarson said...

why in tarnation (rabbit!) are taxes being cut at all?

Because when tax rates are cut, receipts to the Federal treasury go UP not down.

Of course if you feel bad not paying more, by all means leave the IRS a tip.

2:18 PM  
Blogger Editor said...

Not much of a statistic when the top 5% own 60% of the country, the top 10% own 72% and the bottom 40% own 0.3% of the country.

It is not surprising Carol is bitching about taxes (again) while the poor bleed and die protecting the business interests and assets of the wealthy because as Jesus said, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter heaven".

2:26 PM  
Blogger Mayoor said...

Why the hell should rich people have to be made to feel guilty about being rich. They have positioned themselves in the path of success.

3:06 PM  
Blogger Bachbone said...

After the "eye of the needle" parable, His disciples asked Jesus, "Who then can be saved?", and Jesus also said, ""With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:16-26, RSV) Therefore, the wealthy can, indeed, enter the kingdom of God. Many leftists, though, equate being wealthy with being evil. Except, of course, when the wealthy are leftists, even though they use the same tax laws as the conservative wealthy to preserve their riches.

So, is Sen. Kerry going to hell, too, because according to his and Ms. Heinz-Kerry's (they have a $700 million net worth) tax returns, they were in the 15% tax bracket, when the average American making $200,000 a year paid 25% in taxes?

Or how about billionaire George Soros, who told a 60 Minutes interviewer, "I am basically [in business] to make money. I cannot and do not look at the social consequences of what I do." I don't see leftists criticize Soros as making the "poor bleed and die protecting [his] business interests." (To be fair, I suppose he would be blasted as soon as he quit funding and other leftist causes.)

3:33 PM  
Blogger wile e coyote said...

Ms Tomlinson,

What research supports your comments that "the fiscally wealthy get around most taxes anyway"?

You indetify yourself as a journalist; I am sure you would not state as a fact something you cannot support.

4:37 PM  
Blogger Marshall Art said...

The wealthy don't "get around" taxes, but pay according to IRS rules, which are set up to promote the type of activity that results in people getting wealthy. And thought I'd much rather spend money on things other than war, I don't see the current mission to be crap on which we're wasting money. Frankly, I could easily go for a flat tax or a national consumption tax, though I fear politicians would raise those as well for the same reasons of overspending. But "fair share" as it is known today is very subjective, and when one considers all that benefits society by the wealth creation of business builders, they've more than paid their fair share through taxes on purchases, job creation and the like. As to how much the wealthy own, well, they freakin' paid for it, didn't they?

6:24 PM  
Blogger Diane Tomlinson said...

Of course, Wile E Coyote as a journalist I come with aglaring example of a tax loophole that as you say is legal but I find offensive. This ability to deduct your entire gross income and then reinvest the money yourself while legal is not something a middle class American can participate in. I still don't see what the 17.5% flat tax for everyone does to degrade capitalism in America. Such a tax would eliminate the need for a filing system and put the burden of tax payments on employers where it belongs and not unconstitutionally on citizens.

Even President Bush realizes that the rich do not pay their taxes as they should as is pointed out by his quote during the 2004 campaign during a stop in Annandale, VA from the Associated Press, 9 August 2006:
The president held a town hall-style forum with about 600 supporters at Northern Virginia Community College in Annandale.

He criticized Democrat John Kerry's proposal to eliminate tax cuts for the wealthy, saying that "the rich in America happen to be small business owners" who put people to work. Bush added that "the really rich people figure out how to dodge taxes anyway."

If your president is not a good enough source of facts then I will provide more upon your request.


8:52 AM  
Blogger Diane Tomlinson said...

That quote date should have been 9 August 2004 not 2006.


8:55 AM  
Blogger Cliff said...

Editor said...
"Not much of a statistic when the top 5% own 60% of the country, the top 10% own 72% and the bottom 40% own 0.3% of the country."

Editor, why don't you work hard, save your money and
purchase your own part of the country! Stop the jealousy and class envy and start working for it like they did!

10:35 AM  
Blogger Cliff said...

Diane, I'm tired of this self righteous nonsence! "If YOUR president is not a good enough source of facts then I will provide more upon your request." If you hate this country so much, get out!

10:42 AM  
Blogger Editor said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:51 AM  
Blogger Cliff said...

Diane said,"Such a tax would eliminate the need for a filing system and put the burden of tax payments on employers WHERE IT BELONGS and not unconstitutionally on citizens."

I'm sick of this liberal rot and drivel also!

Lady, do you work for a living?
If so, who gave you that job, a "poor citizen," or a "rich employer?"

How stupid can it get?
Think once in a while, and you'll progress a little farther in life!

10:52 AM  
Blogger Cliff said...

Editor why don't you work for a living and stop leeching off the hard work of others!

10:54 AM  
Blogger Editor said...

My being in the top 5%, makes your comment absurd (as usual). Your dunce cap is too tight.

10:55 AM  
Blogger Cliff said...

I'll be so glad when you people are out of power!

10:58 AM  
Blogger Cliff said...

Editor said...
This post has been removed by the author.

10:51 AM

What happened, did you chicken out?

11:00 AM  
Blogger Cliff said...

My point is that EVERY TIME
we, on this blog, blow the libs cover and mop the floor with their bankrupt and downright stupid ideas,
they can't take the heat and cut out!

11:05 AM  
Blogger Cliff said...

eLarson said..."Because when tax rates are cut, receipts to the Federal treasury go UP not down."

Read This,

US Treasury Sets New 1-Day Tax Receipt Record Of $85.8 Billion
Tuesday September 19th, 2006 / 0h04

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- The U.S. government recorded record-high overall and corporate tax receipts on Sept. 15, which was a quarterly deadline for tax payments, the Treasury said Monday.
Total tax receipts were $85.8 billion on Friday, compared with the previous one-day record of $71 billion on Sept. 15 of last year, the Treasury said.
Within the overall figure, corporate tax receipts Friday were $71.8 billion, up from $63 billion in September of last year.
Treasury Undersecretary for Domestic Finance Randal Quarles said Friday's numbers provided a "continuing demonstration of the strength of the U.S. economy."
"In fact, Friday's gross receipts were the largest in a single day in the nation's history - 20% higher than receipts on the same quarterly tax payment date last year," Quarles said in a statement.
-By Benton Ives-Halperin, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-9255;

12:22 PM  
Blogger Diane Tomlinson said...

I work everyday and very hard for my silver coins I might add trying to bring a little truth and light to a debate that has lost its civility. I'm truly sorry Cliff that your party, the GOP, has bungled the foreign policy free ride of the century post September 11, 2001, by following the likes of Laurie Mylroie and William Kristol down the rabbit hole of Iraq.

I work for a state run news organization that has likely more freedom of the press than corporate owned papers in America. You see Cliff Americans believe what they WANT to believe. That applies to taxes, wars, terrorism, lifestyles, religion and anything else they can be wrong about.
The proof of this is when you say, "I'll be so glad when you people are out of power!" Well the last time I read CQ the GOP had both the executive and legislative branches and had appointed two justices to the SCOTUS. Democrats cannot even schedule a hearing in Congress. What else do your people need other than another 20 years to bring the rest of the sky down on America?

And as far as geting ahead in life, been there done that and I still am. But no matter what happens in November I hope the truth is served even more so than my own personal lust to see the advocates of bad government turned out.

Oh and on the record receipts in taxes thing record profits for corporations tend to do that for the Taxman!

I do so enjoy these little debates!
Hey, since this is a capitalist democracy why not invoke the 1st Amendment and read my dispatches at www.the and see what far left liberals are really thinking!

1:45 PM  
Blogger Cliff said...

Again, I can't wait for you people to be out of power!! Beginning with November.

2:20 PM  
Blogger Cliff said...

"why not invoke the 1st Amendment and read my dispatches at www.the and see what far left liberals are really thinking!" Gag me!

You don't think that I know what you libs are all about?

2:24 PM  
Blogger Marshall Art said...


It's a lovely circle: lower taxes, more profits from which taxes come, more taxes paid. Those corporate profits that many lefties feel are indicative of greed and treachery, are enhanced by low taxes, and that's why tax receipts are up. They go hand in hand. Raise taxes, you choke profits and then the productivity that the profits allow for, and then tax receipts plummet. Also, the wealthy put their money where they are less likely to be taxed like hell. The only way to raise revenues to the gov is to lower tax rates. It's been shown to be true for three different presidential admins and as I recall, Cuomo got a boost for New York for doing the same thing.

6:01 PM  
Blogger The Flomblog said...

A basic truth. Rich People do not need to pay taxes. Rich people generate wealth!

Unless they havea money vault like ol'e Scrooge McDuck, they pump this money back into the economy. Thisa in turn creates jobs and government revenue.

There is a magnificant term that describes all this -- Incentive

7:37 AM  
Blogger wile e coyote said...

Ms Tomlinson,

Compared to the hard data Carol cited on where tax receipts come from, your W quote doesn't cut it, though I am tickled that you would find him such a credible source on fiscal matters. I suspect that Bush's "really rich" remark -- made during the 2004 campaign -- was a jab at Kerry and his billionaire wife, rather a summary of tax- collection data.

Not to split hairs, but Bush's quote refers to the "really rich" while you speak of the "wealthy". Do you considers these to be the same? Bush's remark clearly distinguishes between the really rich and the rich, let alone the wealthy.

As long as you're diggging for quotes, how about this one: "Only the little people pay taxes." You may recall it comes from Leona Helmsley, a really rich person who did time for tax evasion.

Your reliance on a flat tax to fix things may be misplaced. The alternative miminum tax already wipes out many deductions that would result in high gross income yielding low taxable income. Passive loss limitation rules have also cut way back on the utility of tax shelters in reducing taxable income

The most sophisticated tax planning prevents income from being recognized in the first place, which is not something a flat tax would reach.

My own view is that we should replace the income tax with a national value-added tax.

3:10 PM  

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