Carol Platt Liebau: Thanks, Democrats

Saturday, February 24, 2007

Thanks, Democrats

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is openly proclaiming that the United States is unable to fight a war with Iran.

Thanks, Democrats. By parading before the world the divisions and trouble that setbacks in Iraq have occasioned, they have helpfully contributed to Ahmadinjad's complacency. Is this really wise? Setting aside the issue of whether we should go to war with Iran, is it in America's national interest to lead enemy nations to bellieve we can't?


Blogger Marshal Art said...

Perhaps this is the world opinion that the left was hoping to develop, that we're a huge and advanced nation with no spine, no courage, no guts to do the right thing. Hey, as long as they like us, I guess. But does anyone really like cowardice, timidity or the absence of resolve?

I have always believed that it is absolutely naive to think that we should not be perceived to be the baddest badass on the block. The United States of America has always been at the forefront of aid to any nation that needs it. Our benevolence should not even be a question. Yet at the same time, to be so generous and seen as the global chump does not do us any good. Call it fear, call it respect of our power, the world should take it for granted that we will respond to attacks or threats with extreme prejudice in order to protect our people, if not our borders. If they don't know us by our benevolent actions, why should we concern ourselves that they'll ever see us in a good light?

8:43 PM  
Blogger One Salient Oversight said...

I'm obviously against any invasion of Iran, but if let my ideology take a back seat for a moment, would such an invasion succeed?

The main thing is to determine what sort of war would be fought against Iran. Would it be a full-scale invasion and overthrow of the Iranian government in the same manner as the Iraqi invasion of 2003? Or would it simply be a massive air strike against military targets and infrastructure, with the aim of debilitating the nation and preventing their ability to wage war or develop (phantom) WMDs? This would also involve a taking over of Iranian oil fields.

If a full-scale invasion is to take place, then there is no way that the US would win as it stands now. The simple reason is that there are nearly 70 million people living in Iran, compared to about 25 million Iraqis. There is no doubt that the US military is stretched already in Iraq and Afghanistan. In order to successfully invade Iran and overthrow its government, the size of the US military would have to increase 4 or 5 times. There are only two ways to get an army that big, either triple military pay and benefits, or conscript people.

The other major problem with a full scale invasion is the terrain. I'm not a military maven, but I do know that fighting over rocky and hilly terrain is harder than flat deserts. The majority of Iran is mountainous. M1 tanks are not going to be as useful in Mountainous terrain as they are in the plains of Iraq. With 70 million people ready to defend their country, there will be great loss of life on both sides.

Of course Afghanistan is mountainous as well, but the people there are quite backward compared to the more technologically developed Iran. Moreover, the Afghans were probably quite happy to see the Taliban go, while the Iranians are not as happy for the US to invade them.

The other option is far more likely to succeed, because of the limited goals. US troops could invade the coastal areas of Iran and take over the oil producing areas, thus denying the Iranian government of needed revenue. The rest of the country could be bombarded from the air. There is a chance that an Iranian F-14 might down a US plane with a Phoenix, but not much. The US would easily win an air war with Iran.

Both options would, however, inflame the Shiites in Iraq, who would respond to such an invasion by ramping up their activities in Iraq. The turmoil it would bring upon the Middle East would alienate the US from the Islamic world for at least another century and inflame many towards radicalism.

9:09 PM  
Blogger One Salient Oversight said...


The world does not owe the US. The US owes the world.

According to the CIA World Factbook, America owes the world $10.04 Trillion. In 1997 the US gave $6.9 Billion in overseas aid. I don't think it hasn't increased much in ten years.

And that $10.04 Trillion has to be paid back, with interest.

The Republicans haven't exactly been fiscally conservative since 2001 have they?

3:13 AM  
Blogger Fredrick Schwartz said...

Well first off before I go into some long winded monograph on world opinion let's just give voice to a few of the questions the brains in Moscow, Beijing and New Delhi are asking this morning. What will the world be like without the United States as the sole superpower, or without her as a global influencer of economies, massive consumer of energy and empire seeker? Who will fill the void and how when she is gone?

This Marshall brings me to the one thing that those on the right who have hitched their wagon to a dying horse and those on the left who are sitting in a cart with no horse can't seem to grasp. Al Qaeda is not bound by American political cycles or divisiveness within its government or among its electorate. Were that the case there would be IED attacks in the streets of every major city in the country today.

On September 11, 2001 America was recovering from the most polarizing election in its history but it was truckin right on along. There were not members of the GOP calling members of the Democratic Party traitors. The phrase cut 'n run as Carol loves to put it did not even exist and on that date despite comparative unity in America 19 Arabs working for Osama bin Laden carried out an attack that would have made the leadership of the Mossad blush at its audacity. This with only 50% or less of the full plan carried out right under the nose of the finest intelligence gathering organizations ever put together. No one tweaked to the facts that this was coming.

Here is the other thing that can save America from being cast into the ash heap of history. Stop caring who is to blame for what. The main reason is the fact that fundamentalists of all religions can depend on the rich for money as much as they can depend on the poor for soldiers. The Saudis, the world's greatest financiers of terror groups, do not see the number of attacks on their soil. While Americans try to figure out the reasons for the disdain they are held in by the Muslim world the plotters of the next wave of attacks are likely already within your borders. Going about their everyday business until they get the call to activate their cell and carry out their mission that was sealed likely before the success of 9/11/01. Unlike America which trundles along daily gambling on its own success on the NYSE and NASDAQ which is Las Vegas for the elite, al Qaeda and all of the Middle East lives the long term plan. Israel does the same as they seek to kep the state alive into perpetuity. But isn't one day at a time the mantra of all addicts? America addicted to oil and ease of possessions abundance of food sits ripe for the plucking by anyone willing to reach up at the bending branch. What nation among all on the face of the wrold can least bear seven days without easy access to food, water electricity, gasoline, eh? There doesn't need to be a dirty bomb attack, or a flight of jumbo jets ever again. Just let your president attack Iran openly and allow him to stand before the cameras and boast about it as him defining his legacy. Then come back to me two weeks later as you gasoline costs hit $9 a gallon and tell me how much you still love the price you have to pay for unilateral aggression.

And OSO spot on mate America has not the bodies to fight a ground war in Iran. It wiill be all cruise missiles and stealth bombing. Draft? No way! American men would burn their cards in the streets and Fox News and carol too would have to call those people traitors. That failed in the 1960s and it would be the death of the GOP today because they couldn't shelter the sons of the rich from a draft this time.

4:14 AM  
Blogger Marshal Art said...


That site doesn't mention any markers we hold. Why do suppose that is? There's no way that there is no nation that owes us anything. Nations carry debt indefinitely. Notice how Bono is calling for us to forgive debt in Africa. Few pay back, few insist that anyone does. It's the way of the world. Chances are, we're one of the few who pays anything back at all. I have no proof, but considering our benevolence, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

As for Freddy,

I'm sure at least a couple of those countries would love to see what things would be like without the US as the big dog, but it's likely the world would suffer. I don't know where you come from, but this country largely deals from a position of charity. Can the same be said of any of those you've listed? This matters more than you might choose to believe.

Your second paragraph is just plain stupid. We are well aware of the type of foe we face with groups like AlQaeda. At least we on the right are. We do NOT take them for granted.

Before 9/11 we didn't call Dems traitors. We called them idiots for trying to further the same destructive policies they always support. We call them the same since 9/11 for the stupid obstructionist games they play as a result of their self-serving quest for dominance in our political system, often without regard for the impact on our goals in Iraq and the WOT. But to say there was anything resembling unity is to be blind to the whining that took place with the electoral victory of Bush in 2000. We were united for about twenty minutes following 9/11, and, just like the French, the left began their usual crap.

But, Freddy-boy. Despite all our problems, it would be absolutely stupid to question our national resolve were we to be attacked again on our soil. Once again, we are aware of the possibility of sleeper cells in our country. We don't need some schmuck from out of town telling us how to take care of business. I suggest you look to your own and focus your blatherings there.

And what you and OSO seem to forget, is the hand-wringing and pants-wetting over Bush's decision to invade Iraq. There was plenty of talk about his super-duper Royal Guard, or whatever he called them, and how battle hardened they were, and what a tough fight it will be for our troops to go up against those who fought so long against Iran. Then, once we went in, it took, what, 15 minutes to topple the scumbag Hussein. What makes you think Iran would be much tougher, when they were stalemated with Iraq for so long?

Chances are, we wouldn't go in on the ground anyway. Most likely would be airstrikes on major targets, and then the populace, who supposedly is sick of the Iranian big dogs, would finally take advantage and depose them themselves. That's the way I see it anyway.

But the topic here, as you've seemed to have forgotten, is the cockyness of Mahmoud and how it is likely it is emboldened by the lefty do nothings whining about Bush. This is most likely the case. They've felt as much since at least Carter, if not since we left Viet Nam. For this world opinion, we have the left to thank.

10:22 PM  
Blogger One Salient Oversight said...

One more thing Marshall,

9/11 was obviously a galvanizing moment for America. Unfortunately most Americans did not realise the impact it would have on the rest of the world.

It's hard to describe, but the vest majority of the world was horrified with those events on that day. I burst into tears in front of my TV set here in Australia when I learned the news.

There was a huge outpouring of sympathy and brotherhood towards America as a result of this terrorist act. Here in Australia people gathered in front of US consuls and waved US flags and dropped flowers in sympathy. A German warship even saluted an American warship, giving the Americans the highest honour they could give.

America always develops negative feelings amongst the international community, but that completely disappeared after 9/11. We felt as one with America, we wanted to help America, we wanted to stand by America in its action against terrorism, we felt righteous anger. There was a link there with America that had never existed beforehand. Where once there was cynicism there was deep respect and admiration.

And then Bush and the GOP blew it by going to Iraq.

It hurt us that our counsel was so readily ignored. We waited to be convinced by American intelligence sources while, at the same time, Americans began to insult and degrade allies like France and Germany who had genuine questions about Iraq. When we said "no" to supporting the invasion, the outpouring of hate towards us by America was astounding. We had become the proxy enemy though we had done nothing.

America invaded and now is mired in a quicksand of violence that will not end.

America does not want to be liked. That's not America's role. However America needs to be trusted and respected if it is have a positive effect upon the world.

With Bush and the GOP and the war in Iraq, no trust or respect is left. We look upon the ruins of its democracy with sadness and anger. We feel betrayed by America's acts. This will not be forgotten. America's place in the world has changed permanently.

10:43 PM  
Blogger One Salient Oversight said...

and then the populace, who supposedly is sick of the Iranian big dogs, would finally take advantage and depose them themselves. That's the way I see it anyway.

This is what they thought would happen in 1991 in Iraq. It didn't happen. The people of Afghanistan didn't "depose" the taliban when US forces went in, the US had to do it themselves. When the US went in in 2003, Shiite dominated areas fought against US troops despite the fact that their country was controlled by an anti-Shiite Sunni minority.

You have to look at facts. Your belief that the people of Iran will just rise up and take over because the US decides to bomb is naive in the extreme.

As for the US economy - any economy has money going in and going out. Any economy has people borrowing and lending.

The fact is that America as a whole has been on a borrowing spree for some 25 years. There is a massive amount of public and private debt.

This is balanced out by other nations like Japan, who save massive amounts of money.

2:54 PM  
Blogger Marshal Art said...

Well you in Australia sent troops to Iraq along with almost the same amount of countries that joined in the coalition for the first Gulf War. I say almost because France and Germany bowed out. They had genuine questions over whether they'd take heat for doing business with Sadam.

But maybe you can answer this a bit more truthfully than your blatherings about Bush: Before 9/11, just what the hell was the problem that results in negative feeling toward my country? I'd sincerely love to hear it. I hope it bears more semblance to truth than your last post about what we do, have done and so on.

BTW, where the hell was YOUR intel about Iraq before the invasion? Ours mirrored the feelings of almost everyone in the world. Bush merely had the stones to do something about it.

3:26 PM  
Blogger Fredrick Schwartz said...

OSO why do we waste our time trying to be rational with some of these folk???


I understand your fear for the future generations that will have to live in a world where the playing field is more level and people do not pass because they belong to a certain religion or they are of a certain race. What will all those Americans do in such a world? I am sure this terrorizes you. If a person of your stature can grasp the coming iron hammer on its downswing imagine the plans the elites who run your country are making.

I will reiterate what I said in clearer detail for you in that second paragraph because you have seen the first evidence of it just overnight in Afghanistan as the Taleban took a major risk in trying to assassinate your vice president. There was no chance the attack would work but it was a message that is resonating around the globe even as I sit here and dictate this. You picked the wrong country to lash out at after the whole of Terra joined you post 9/11. The so called war on terror is being lost because of political stubbornness and you Marshall are doing your part as a sheeple by following along with whatever you are told by people who if things were to get seriously bad in America would just get on private planes and helicopters and leave the country. They can be rich and powerful anywhere they don't need a nation state to do that. They, the elites, love America for exactly the opposite reason you do. The Dick Cheney's of the world love America because they can amass great wealth and power there like they can in a no other land on the face of Terra. While you see it as some sort of moral proof of a certain people's faith creating a land of freedom for average Joes who go to church every Sunday and have a personal relationship with a Divine Incarnation.

No I'm not mocking your religion, either, so don't go getting all huffy about someone threatening Christendom. Faith is very important to me too as a Jew, but what I don't grok Marshall is how you can justify your nation's killing of thousands of people in a country where the people who attacked you didn't live? Osama bin Laden is very near Quetta Pakistan Ayman al Zawahiri is in North Waziristan the Taleban have reconstituted in Helmand province and have rebuilt nearly every network globally that was working in concert with al Qaeda on January 1 2001. They are back at their full effective global planning and execution capability and have created a new "base" in North Waziristan. But all that plays on the media and all that is supported by dead enders like yourself who are nothing more than the American equivalent of the lunatic fringe of religious and political ideology that gives rise to groups like al Qaeda, Hezbollah and Hamas is the need to bomb Iran to invade and destroy, to surge in Iraq never to talk.

But now a glimmer of hope as you come to Baghdad to meet at low levels with Syria and Iran (finally!) so that you can understand what you didn't when in march of 2003 America threw away global support for victory over the harshest elements of Islam in the name of unilaterism spoonfed to George W Bush by the American Enterprise Institute.

Having the stones to do something is hardly a justification for doing that thing Marshall. And how un Christian it is to be so bloodthirsty? If a woman on the streets insults you in front of friends and you have the "stones" to use your fists to break her jaw so that she cannot insult anyone else are you justified in doing so? You could learn a great lesson from Israel, precision is better than trying to kill a mosquito with a backhoe especially when it was a horse fly that bit you in the first place.

I don't question America's committment to wealth or its patriotism in the name of greed or its religious belief in the name of control, no Marshall i would never do these things. All I wish from your government is to stay out of the Middle East for at least a century once the American troops to go home in the winter of 2009. Giuliani won't keep them there neither will McCain nor will Gore or Clinton or Obama. And this is the only good thing that has come from the whole bloody mess that is Iraq. Americans now know that abortion and flag burning are minor issues and those who think they are major issues have very minor minds.

Might I suggest Marshall, if you live near a major city Marshall that you invest a few hundred dollars in a good radiation detector. There are many great pocket sized models that measure dosage per minute per hour and constant measure in mRem/time.

Qu'ul cuda praedex nihil!

5:24 AM  
Blogger The Flomblog said...

America - Pariotism in the name of greed - That statement is beneath contempt.

Lets see - The Marshal Plan, rebuilding Europe and Japan, How about the US Navy -- it screened Australia from Japan while it was reeling from the Pearl Harbor Debacle.

I served with Aussies and Kiwi's in Vietnam. These men were superb both as soldiers and people. Your shotgun attacks injure them as well.

Go read a book called "The Mouse That Roared".

I think that the USA, as well as the UK, Australia, New Zealand and, yes, Israel are all that stand between civilization and a prolonged return to the dark ages. And as another Jew - I thank G-d for modern Christianity.

1:27 PM  

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